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RSS Feed Report 042: Su-25 Frogfoot

It has been added a very powerful, but usually underrated attack aircraft.

Posted by timeSymmetry on Oct 6th, 2013

Another report itís here, this time is to focus only in one single family, the Su-25.

At the moment, the development is already at full speed, however the lack of recent reports is because of the fact that current the development pipeline is quite different from what it was while alpha funding stage.

While in the alpha it was important to maintain a stable build, the development was forced to always be made in small steps and tested before release, but now the development can be progressed simultaneous in multiple features, and it is possible to only finish a features after all the other interacting mechanics are equally completed.
Which this makes these features take more time to be considered completed.

To avoid the reports presented becoming an empty promise, I prefer only to talk about features in report after they are mostly done, so this new development method is less useful to generate a constant stream of reports that the previously used.
The same applies to the aircrafts in the game, they only will be presented where when the all the family is done.

At the moment there are several aircrafts and features close to their completion, so you can be assured that very soon there will be a lot to talk about.

Also, about the promised last update for the alpha funders while waiting the game to be completed, I must apologies for that. That build is already finished ready to be released, but the respective content that would be featured in that last build is not fully ready yet.
The problem comes from that in this ďclosedĒ development the schedule is very tight and demanding milestones, at least in these first months, so there has been very little time to fulfill those goals.

But to address this issue, one solution that can be releasing that last build and everything that has been initially planned and it isnít been done yet it will be uploaded later.
The only thing you need to be aware is that this last update will not reflect the present state of development in either content or features, but it will include the mission editor now PROPERLY tested and fully working, as it was in that build that were made several missions that will be available in the final build.

But now going back to the main topic of this report, the Su-25, this is actually first family to be fully completed after the game become in closed development, as I said above, there are some other are near their completion, so they will be shown very soon as well.

So, now onto the family:

First about this family in general, the Su-25 was an aircraft developed initially to be a day time light attack fighter.
But due to its shape, which is quite similar to the YA-9, its very often compared to the A-10 and regarded as a CAS aircraft, whoever the main role of this aircraft ground attack while as for the A-10 is primarily for Close air support.
This distinction may appear to be insignificant, but in reality the A-10 is more suited against armor, while the Su-25 is intended for other types of targets similar to some aircrafts like the Jaguar and F-1.

With that said, letís start as usual with the initial prototype, the T-8, sometimes also referred as SPB.

The T-8 shape already resembles the mass produced version, whoever it has some noticeable differences overall.

This version can already carry a significant payload and it is compatible with laser guided weaponry. But the combat capabilities as expected lower than the mass produced version.
But due to the simplicity and traditional wings layout it can be a considered a pleasantly maneuverable aircraft.

The Su-25, a sub sonic attack aircraft and this version already features the shape we are more used to know.
It has the distinctive pitot probes in front of the nose and the air brakes on the tip of the wings.

This version is most common and basic variant, whoever differently to some of the following aircrafts, it features built-in chaff dispersers on top of the engine in addition to the more common flares.

The commercial version of the Su-25 with very slight changes visually.

The su-25K is downgraded version compared to the original SU-25 regarding to avionics, it also lacks in chaff dispensers and uses a less powerful engine, however these changes led to a lost in weight which it gives bit more maneuverability.

The Su-25KM a largely improved version over the Su-25K, it is visually almost identical to his predecessor, with the exception of the shorten tube in the tail.

The Su-25KM, nicknamed ĎScorpioní is a fairly recent update of the venerable series, introducing a glass cockpit, digital map generation software, helmet mounted display, and other modern technology in an attempt to maintain the Frogfootís performance in a modern battlefield.

This variant is also capable of using NATO armament like the MK-80 bombs and other laser guided weaponry.

Su-25SM is the most modernized variant in the whole family, directly derived from the original Su-25. Although, it may not be as technologically advanced as the T and TM variants, but it features extensive improvements.
Visually it can only be distinguished by the reshaped tail and new airbrakes.

The Su-25SMís modification package upgrades the Su-25ís engines with anti-surge technology, as well as a new HUD and vastly improved fire control systems, tripling the accuracy of navigation and guided munitions.
This variant also allows the addition of external radar which grants the capability of firing BVR missiles against air targets.
All these changes will allow this aircraft to be viable beyond the year 2020.

The Su-25UB is twin seat trainer version; it has an higher the dorsal bump to allow room for the instructor pilot.
As derived from the original, it maintains the chaff dispenser on top of the engines.

The Su-25UB sacrifices some fuel carriage for the addition of the second pilotís seat. However, the aircraft does not suffer much reduction in aerodynamic performance and remains fully combat capable.

The Su-25UBM features the same improvements of the SU-25SM but in lesser degree applied to the Su-25UB airframe, it also has the improved airbrakes but also adds a heat disperser rod in the engine nozzles.

The Su-25UBM has been upgraded with additional electronic capabilities, allowing it to undertake reconnaissance, electronic command and target designation roles in a battlefield environment.
Like any other two seat attack aircraft, the presence of a second pilot reduces the workload of the primary and increases the situation awareness in the cockpit, resulting and higher effectiveness against ground targets.

The Su-25U3 born from extensive modifications to the Su-25UB, the changes include cockpit layout and nose to allow three pilots seated in tandem.
Whoever, this change forces the elimination of the IR target designators in the addition to the removal of the airbrakes.

The Su-25U3 is an experimental concept for a three-seat trainer variant of the Frogfoot to increase the efficiency in training new pilots.
As for actual combat, this aircraft can perform recon and tactical data sharing to other friendly aircrafts. However is far less combat capable that other variants as it canít use laser guided weaponry.

The Su-25UTG features an arrestor hook and reinforced undercarriage to be able to operate in aircraft carriers with ski-jump.

This navalized version of the Su-25 the improvements applied to the SU-25UBM like the improved brakes and newer electronics.
The weapons compatible with the Su-25UTG are also wider the past variants, allowing it to use anti ship missiles.

The SU-25T is a highly improved version derivates from the Su-25UBM, but removing the second seat to store more avionics. This version is actually the one that should be compared to the A-10, as it shares the same primary role.
This version also includes a passive infrared jammer in the back of the tail, a reshaped nose with the gun moved to outside of the mainframe.

The Su-25T is a specialized variant geared specifically towards anti-tank combat, with an extended nose containing guidance systems for both laser and TV control. It also boasts an expanded inventory of guided weapons for use against armored targets.
This variant, as it is dedicated to anti-armor and it features all-weather and night attack capability, with this specs, it can be more correctly compared to the YA-10B N/AW (Night/Adverse Weather) of the A-10 family.
The changes made in this Su-25 allow it to operate in heavy smoke and low light our while accurately delivers a board range of ordinance,

The final and ultimate variant of SU-25, adds back the chaff dispenser in top of the infrared jammer and includes higher performance engines to achieve greater speeds and climb rates

The Su-25TM (or Su-39) is a direct upgrade of the highly successful Su-25T, with further upgraded weapons capability allowing it to strike naval targets as well as limited support for more advanced air-to-air munitions.
Although the SU-25T and SU-25TM are considered mass produced, they only were produced in very short number due to their high cost compared to the also very capable Su-25SM.

With all variants presented, letís talk about the family evolution. This is something that it wasnít mentioned extensively until now, but the aircraftsí evolutions will be very important in the final version.

Differently from the alpha builds, in the final version only a limited amount of aircrafts will be available to use as soon you start the game for the first time.
If you if you want to be able to use more aircrafts in all modes besides the campaign, you have to unlock them in the challenge mode.

More details about how the challenge mode will work will be provided latter, but Iíll share here the most important ideas for now.

In the challenge mode, every aircraft will have a set of conditions and specific challenges to that unit that must be cleared in order to be able to be used freely.
Also the unlocking of the units must follow the progression if the evolution of that family.

Using the Su-25 as example, the evolution it will presented this way:

If you met the conditions, the first playable unit will be the T-8, after completing the challenges and requirements you will be able to play with it in any game mode, and with that, the Su-25ís challenges will become available,
After unlock this one, it will be possible to try to unlock the Su-25K, Su-25SM and Su-25UB, each with different requirements and with their own set of challenges with varying difficulties.

These challenges can be from, destroying a base as fast as possible using only guns, make the fastest lap in an air race, or even collect as many ďcoinsĒ as possible in a fixed amount of time.

Also, in the actual game, you only be able to see if the aircraft you are trying to unlock has any following variant. So you can consider the image above as a little help you to choose your unlock route the final version.
In alternatively anyone that knows the evolution of that family will surely be able to go focus in a specific branch to be able to reach the desired variant faster.

One last tip, trainers will have a significant role in this mode, as every plane will have some requirements in form of accumulative points dispersed in several categories, with one type of points is family points, which they are earned by playing with specific aircrafts.
And for this, the trainers will be very helpful as they give more family points than any other variants.
AN in this case, the Su-25U3, will give more Su-25ís family points than any other.

But this will be explained latter in more depth when the challenge mode is implemented.

Stay tuned, more reports will follow.

Post comment Comments
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 6 2013, 5:26pm said:

FINALLY FROGFOOT YAAAAAY

Oh, and..

The new mechanic seems to say that you'll start with the original F-16 B5 (1: Using F-16 as an example, 2: Havn't studied F-16s so I assume Block5 is the first chronologically in VT), and end with the CCV?

I hope Skirmish doesn't require you to play through dozens of campaigns to unlock your favourite aircrafts

+2 votes     reply to
SpootKnight
SpootKnight Oct 6 2013, 6:00pm replied:

The F-16 for the moment is probably too incomplete to be sure. As far as I know, the CCV was built from a YF-16 in 1975, which would be well before the introduction of Block variants.

As of the current version we have, the F-16C Block 30 would be the latest variant in the evolution chart. As we get more variants, maybe Blocks 40, 50, 60, anything in between will show up. But there's no way I'd know that.

And it seems like Challenge will be a separate game mode to unlock other variants, rather than Skirmish. The campaigns would have their own unlock system, but only when playing the Campaign game mode.

+2 votes     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 6 2013, 6:08pm replied:

Oh, okay.
About the F-16s, I did say that I havn't studied F-16s much at all, so yeah

And do you mean Challenge is needed to unlock some 2048 variants of aircraft for Skirmish?

+2 votes     reply to
SpootKnight
SpootKnight Oct 6 2013, 6:19pm replied:

Judging by this part:

Quote:If you if you want to be able to use more aircrafts in all modes besides the campaign, you have to unlock them in the challenge mode.

I believe this is the case.

Going with the Su-25's evolution chart, as it says, you'd play a challenge with the T-8 to unlock it in every game mode. Then you'd get the challenge for the Su-25; continue process.

+2 votes     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 6 2013, 10:05pm replied:

Well, at least I have to put some more effort in to get fictional Warthogs or something. BTW: My first plane mod is undecided, but I am hoping to make it an A-10 variant

+2 votes     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 6 2013, 10:56pm replied:

Don't worry, I'll help you decide it.

Pcgameshardware.com

Still Object this never get past concept art and one BEAUTIFUL TRAILER hue.

+1 vote     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 6 2013, 11:29pm replied:

No, I mean my own variant that no other thing has thought of

+1 vote     reply to
bornloser
bornloser Oct 7 2013, 2:31am replied:

Wouldn't it be better to do what smash bros brawl did and give players multiple ways (play a lot of vs matches or complete part of the story mode) to unlock content? You could unlock planes in challenge mode or in the vanilla campaign.

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 7 2013, 2:51am replied:

I think skirmish mode should count too. Which means it could be unlocked in pretty much every modes.

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 8 2013, 6:48am replied:

Assuming the first aircraft of the family will be the YF-16, you will be able to unlock the YF-16CCV right after that.

+1 vote     reply to
IbizenThoth
IbizenThoth Oct 6 2013, 6:44pm said:
Times wrote:The Su-25SMís modification package upgrades the Su-25ís engines with anti-surge technology...

Does mean engine surge actually plays a role in the game, or is this just a background description of the engines?

+2 votes     reply to
MyHatismyFriend
MyHatismyFriend Oct 9 2013, 7:14pm replied:

It's just some fluff I wrote up :P

+3 votes     reply to
SinKing
SinKing Oct 7 2013, 5:55am said:

Jesus - you know your planes! Up to now I was happy to know something called a SU-25 exists. Now I know its whole family.

Nice looking model and textures, though these models would really "shine" if you put a gloss map or specular and possibly a cubemap on the material before you render them out to us viewers.

+1 vote     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 7 2013, 6:04am replied:
Quote: Now I know it's whole family.

Well, minus a few (POSSIBLE) things and with a few fictionals, but whatever, this isn't a sim, so yeah!

Also, don't worry, they have a specmap when released.

+1 vote     reply to
Comanche_Prime
Comanche_Prime Oct 7 2013, 8:01am said:

U3 model looks like a ultimate badass! i never seen it, good model!

+1 vote     reply to
Magus_X
Magus_X Oct 12 2013, 1:17pm said:

May i post a plane suggestion here? There was no feedback on the thread. The AMX International is also a good plane to add to the mix to make the air-ground attack role interesting. Besides, it is a HUEplane that was never in a game before.

+2 votes     reply to
MyHatismyFriend
MyHatismyFriend Oct 12 2013, 8:36pm said:

please fix bomb aiming :((((

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 12 2013, 11:47pm replied:

And gun aiming too!

+1 vote     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 13 2013, 2:47am replied:

And don't forget about your VTOLs, Times!

(can i ask what a HUEplane is?)

+1 vote     reply to
Magus_X
Magus_X Oct 16 2013, 3:38pm replied:

A brazilian plane

+3 votes     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 20 2013, 3:15am replied:

Speaking of Brazilian plane, the Super Tucano might be in too.

Just wait & see.

+1 vote     reply to
SlyCooperFan1
SlyCooperFan1 Oct 13 2013, 5:07pm said:

Will the aircraft list in the hangar be displayed in that fashion (family tree of the aircraft's family)? The way it is now in Alpha is really cumbersome.

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 14 2013, 7:05am replied:

Yes, I can try to display similarly to this, Iím not pleased the way it was displayed in the alpha either.

+2 votes     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 18 2013, 12:38pm replied:

Just remember to have the aircraft's Landed model on the hangar floor; don't want any boring "Floatin' in space" here :P

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 19 2013, 1:44am said:

I wonder since all Su-25s are pretty much in, will there be Il-102 (aka 'it's somewhat distant brother/comrade') as well?

+2 votes     reply to
szboudreau01
szboudreau01 Oct 20 2013, 2:11pm replied:

yush, it'd fit perfectly with the frogs :P

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 20 2013, 5:19pm replied:

The Il-102 is a very unique and interesting creature. If it is added, it will be added the YA-9 as well, since they are similar in roles and shared similar fate.

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Nov 22 2013, 10:14am replied:

Well then,

I.imgur.com

pls.

+1 vote     reply to
XandreUK
XandreUK Oct 23 2013, 9:26am said:

I might have interpreted some of that wrong, but it seems to me that you plan on having players complete challenges and also build family experience in an Ace Combat 5 inspired scoring system in order to unlock evolutionary planes. If this is the case then in all honesty I think you're trying to be too clever with the system - in AC5 the family system worked so well because it was so simple, whereas having to get experience points and having to do challenges to unlock the plane for general use strikes me as padding out a system that really shouldn't be artificially lengthened due, in no small part, to the fact the game will have well over one hundred aircraft to unlock. It'd probably be best to only use one of the two aspects or getting new variants will most likely go from something enjoyable to something of a chore...

+2 votes     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 26 2013, 7:53am replied:

I completely understand your point. But probably I didnít explained properly this mode, the whole point of the challenge system is actually to make the unlock system more enjoyable.

If I recall correctly, the AC5 required the player to do a lot of grinding to unlock aircrafts. There were some planes that I had to play more than 20 times the same mission just get enough points to unlock that variant, then I had to repeat the process to another variant. That I believe is padding and artificially extending the game lifetime with reused content.

What I want to with the challenge mode is completely opposite of that, instead of playing more than twenty times the same mission over and over again just to unlock a new aircraft, with this mode the player just needs to clear 3~5 small unique challenges with that same aircraft. If you cleared with good score you wonít need any grinding and you actually playing with new content in every aircraft you unlock.

I honestly believe this way is far more interesting and enjoyable, playing 5 small new missions than endlessly repeating the same mission just for the sake of gaining more points.

So as you as you see, you donít need to worry, I want the unlock process to be enjoyable as well.

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 26 2013, 7:02pm replied:

If I recall, planes have EXP/rank stats (?) too. Then what is it for? Unlocking tuning-related rewards?

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 29 2013, 6:40am replied:

The EXP/rank stats are for unlocking stuff in a campaign, it is optional. I plan to add a different unlocking method for the three campaigns: money/Shop, mission/story progress and Exp/rank. Custom campaigns are free to use it or not.

+1 vote     reply to
bornloser
bornloser Oct 28 2013, 3:21pm replied:

Pretty much every ace combat game from 4 on is guilty of this. Why do I have to unlock ace difficulty? What is the point of adding alternate missions/branches that don't change the ending, like the ones in 5 and cross rumble? Why can't I unlock and buy the Wyvern in time for the final mission of the story, instead of it being new game+ content? Because the play time without doubling the content.

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 28 2013, 7:48pm replied:

It's basically a 'standard video game rule' of unlocking new stuff (before the advent of the evil DLC, that is)

+1 vote     reply to
bornloser
bornloser Oct 28 2013, 8:15pm replied:

Yeah. I almost never complete a game's "new game plus" mode-get bored after the first 15 minutes or just play multiplayer instead.

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Oct 29 2013, 6:57am replied:

Personally I donít mind playing again if the campaign was enjoyable (or if I donít have any other alternative like multiplayer or skirmish mode)

But Iíll try not to rely too much on grinding because Iím well aware that is a cheap way to extend the gameís play time. But some better units it will still require some effort to unlock them (either by skills or persistence) otherwise it would be too easy and wouldnít give any sense of achievement.

+1 vote     reply to
bornloser
bornloser Oct 29 2013, 3:46pm replied:

True but I think the best way to do that is just to make the campaign (or at least the route to the best ending) longer or harder than what you would typically see in a commercial game. Make players really think about what they're doing, even if they're replaying an early mission in an F-22.

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Nov 3 2013, 10:31am replied:

I also agree with that, even if it doesnít branch out into a completely separate story, there are some fun things can still be done to add more replay value. Like for example if you only destroy the TGTs and spare other fighters, they may come back in later missions as surviving aces.

+1 vote     reply to
Nergal01
Nergal01 Oct 29 2013, 7:07am said:

TS:Since we're already talking about unlockable methods and such, I'd like to hear how's your current method of handling unlockable for multiplayer modes. Will it like typical AAA games today (SP and MP unlockables are completely separate, normally encourages grind-a-thon) or will it be tied to SP unlocks (therefore making singleplayer unlock an universal unlock)?

+1 vote     reply to
timeSymmetry
timeSymmetry Nov 3 2013, 9:49am replied:

The SP and MP will be both linked to the challenge mode,
So if you unlock an aircraft there you will be play with it either online or offline modes.

But I wonít rely on that to balance the multiplayer, for that it will be added other rules that will make less capable units a viable choice.

Also Iím considering alternative methods for unlocking in case the player doesnít want or is unable to clear some challenges.

+1 vote     reply to
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